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Hmmm....
The 25 Worst Seasons of Great TV Shows
23. Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 6
(UPN; October 2, 2001 - May 21, 2002)
Buffy's fifth season finale was one for the record books, but the events of that excellent
episode created some serious problems its following season. The result was a sixth
run that didn't quite fit the tone of a show that had built its reputation on its ability to shift
focus from deeply earnest scenes to more light-hearted moments. Yes, Buffy's weakest
season ended up earning more critical accolades than most of the other low points on
this list, but fans still feel some discomfort with its somber events.
www.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/01/25-worst-seasons-great-tv-shows/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-season-6
Now everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I am tired of how some sites are down on
Season Six and Seven of BTVS. I think Season Six was amazing in how it handled life
changes of the characters. Depression is a fact of life. Many fans of the show found
Buffy's depression a bonding moment. She was so powerful, but deep down, she was
just one of us. Flawed and scared. Willow had her own arc of finding a way to deal with
her power as a witch and how her actions affected those she cared about in life. Xander
made grown up plans and then freaked out breaking Anya's heart. Giles left, came back
and left again. Spike finally got his crumb and his heart broken as well. Dawn came into
her own as a person. Season Six wasn't weak to me.
I find it interesting that this article didn't include Season Four of Angel. That was a horrible
mess. Cordy sleeping with Conner???? There isn't enough brain bleach in the world to get
rid of that image. Also the photo this site used for BTVS isn't from Season Six, it's from Season
Seven. Makes me wonder if the writer of the article isn't a Bangel fan and it colored their opinion.
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Also - season 4 Angel *shudders*
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I laughed when I was a panel with Charisma Carpenter talking about shooting those scenes. She was not happy about the scenes or her co-star.
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I think people seem to want their shows to stay the same, but then complain "Bored now" when they do. You can turn on any tv show and find characters who never truly change or grow from one season to the next, which is part of what makes BtVS special to me. These people grow and change, they screw up, they love and hate each other, they keep fighting and it's messy and painful at times just as real life is. With added superpowers, of course. The way they present depression and grief - not just for a few episodes then move along, but as something real, a process a person has to go through, was very brave and touched a chord in me that no other tv show ever has.
I haven't watched Angel so I can't comment on that. And, yes, WHY OH WHY that particular image for the article? Lazy.
BTW may I friend you?
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BTVS was about growing up and dealing with life challenges. I enjoyed Angel, but that season was horrible. They had to change the script due to Charisma Carpenter's pregnancy. Poor Cordy was pregnant several times on the show and none of them were happy times.
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And re: Angel. Well at least they're consistent about that part of his character. Which is part of the reason I don't find him interesting, and downright creepy at times. (Then again I find Joss creepy at times.)
And thanks for friending back! *hugs*
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Angel is a dick. He hid it on BTVS. On ATS, he would use those who trusted him. He does things that Buffy would not approve of in anyway. She never knew about most of those. Angel made sure of it. He even had her followed so he could keep tabs on her. Not much of an Angel fan. LOL!
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No, don't hold back on my account, tell me what you REALLY feel.
:) :)
Not much of an Angel fan myself either, so no worries. The making decisions on behalf of other people really bugs me - and its what bugs me about Riley as well. I really find that in several ways Angel and Riley are more alike than different, or at least more than fans commonly claim. Hello, IWRY and ITW.
(Granted all the characters do it to some degree, as all people do in RL, but it's the pattern of behavior that's the worrisome thing.)
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Seasons 6 and 7 were really good for me, I really, really liked the 7th, in fact it was my favourite season.
I do not get why shows seems to be hated when they do a huge story arc that stretch the entire season, or half a season, it's mostly the American audiences that seem to detest this and I don't understand it. Sure weekly eps or two parters are great, but there is nothing so win [for me] than a story that is intricate and unfolding over time in an unexpected way, I think it's this issue of low attention spans that feed the dislike on such things. I really enjoyed them and I am another loner in saying that S4 of Angel was my favourite too. I liked Cordy turning evil, [and didn't blame Joss *at all* for what he did under the circumstances] I liked Connor, I liked it all and critically it was easily the best season for me cos it was intelligent and unexpected.
But [not on topic rly lol] I also really get irked at people who get angry when the story in a show doesn't go how they wanted it to go, or character development. I still get flabbergasted by people who, as an example, upon discovering that Ianto from Torchwood was gonna die/had died say they will never watch the show again... Or when a character falls in love with someone who they didnt want them to... Shesh! Shows are not interactive for goodness sake, accept what the writers do but dont impose your desires onto a show cos I can guarantee you will hate everything about it if you do that.
Anyhoo, yeah, I liked S6 and 77 of Buffy.
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Very much yes, in terms of the expectations of mainstream audiences in America. I guess this partly explains the popularity here of superhero and action movies which, with rare exceptions, tend to be the same damn thing over and over; lots of explosions, a few cool quips, etc. (Although I know action movies from America are popular all over the world.)
I also really get irked at people who get angry when the story in a show doesn't go how they wanted it to go, or character development.
I enjoy reading BtVS fanfic, and sometimes speculating myself on "what if?" And I understand when a character that people love goes another direction, or when people really hate a certain development and feel let down. (The comics. I'll say no more.) But in terms of this show at least, when it comes to CANON (s1-7), I'm basically interested in the overall arcs of these characters and I can't say that I hate any of them, although I may dislike their actions at times. But the complexity is what makes them really interesting; if they didn't change we wouldn't still be talking about these shows.
And WORD to late season love.
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This is why we have fanfic and fandom, but doing it with a show will only (imho) only lead to dissapointment and I see it *all* the time, even on my flist and every time my mind goes "Don't impose your wants on the show and you will enjoy it much more, stick to fandom for 'tweaks'"
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I think I do but I'm not sure. Do you mean that in your opinion, repetition and "sameness" in movies are more tolerable than with series tv?
my mind goes "Don't impose your wants on the show and you will enjoy it much more, stick to fandom for 'tweaks'"
So you mean don't complain about what the show isn't, just save that for fiction? I agree to a point, if I understand you rightly. For the most part I'd say yes to that; with BtVS for example I'm more interested, in my non-fiction writing and in the way I think about the show, in what it is and what's in front of me than what it isn't. But then I've ranted at length about the comics and how I disliked them. I think we're all entitled to dislike what we dislike or call out problems and issues. But then it seems like for some people, complaining is ALL the pleasure they get out of it, so why are those people fans to begin with? I've seen people on the internet bitch about the character Lily in How I Met Your Mother - really BITCH about how awful she is for leaving Marshall seven or more seasons ago. He forgave her a long time ago, so move on folks. Let it go and put your energies into something more positive.
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Yes, exactly.
So you mean don't complain about what the show isn't, just save that for fiction?
Oh goodness me no, I think I might have been referring to specific instances that I have experienced with people to be honest. I complain about things in my shows all the time, what I don't do is decide how the show should move and what direction a character/plot should take or I am taking my ball home with me and not playing again. Things like "If they kill off Amy and Rory I am *never* watching Doctor Who again! Or "Oh they're killing Ianto, I will *never* watch Torchwood again!" or with Buffy in mind, those who announce what they expect from a coming season and when it doesn't happen they throw a hissy fit...
... I mean anyone can stop watching a show for whatever reason they want, but sometimes the "stand" they are taking is so frigging subjective and meaningless [no one on the production or the actors sodding care if one fan stops watching for any reason and yet those fans often announce it as tho they would] I ask myself well are they really fans or not? Cos honestly they're not fans then imho. Imposing what you want before seeing/reading from a book, a show, whatever, is never gonna work out well.
I knew someone who never watched Buffy after the episode and scene where he offered himself up to Buffy for a beating so she wouldn't go and hand herself in for a murder she thought she had committed... See I *love* Doctor Who, The Doctor is my absolute favourite character ever and yet I can say [and wanted to to her when she said it] that she is way, way, way waaaaay too involved with the fictional character of Spike then, if him getting mistreated is enough to *never* watch the show again... Umm no, that's just way too much investment imo. And I wanna go:
For the most part I'd say yes to that; with BtVS for example I'm more interested, in my non-fiction writing and in the way I think about the show, in what it is and what's in front of me than what it isn't. But then I've ranted at length about the comics and how I disliked them.
Those comics were/are sodding awful, with a capital S. Just sayin' lol Joss is on crack or something cos shesh...
I think we're all entitled to dislike what we dislike or call out problems and issues.
Hell yeah, plot holes and the such, of course.
But then it seems like for some people, complaining is ALL the pleasure they get out of it, so why are those people fans to begin with? I've seen people on the internet bitch about the character Lily in How I Met Your Mother - really BITCH about how awful she is for leaving Marshall seven or more seasons ago. He forgave her a long time ago, so move on folks. Let it go and put your energies into something more positive.
Oh god YES. This.
I do not get people who watch a show every time it airs and then bitch and bleat on what was wrong with it... In fact it really bugs me.
It happens in the Who fandom a *lot* and is usually old Who fans (Who ran from 1966 to 1989 when it went into hiatus, a movie in 1996 and then returned in series form in 2005, I know right, long hiatus lol... The old Who fans more often than not do nothing but complain about the new incarnation of the show and it drives me mental. It's never going to be how it used to be, it got put on hiatus cos of how it was, it had to change and now it did and you hate everything about it, why do you even watch it? I have said in the past to these types, god stop watching it! You apparently hate everything about the show, plots, characters, all of it, why watch it then bore the real fans half to death about all that is wrong with it? *sigh*
It happened on a Dexter comm I was on too, *all* people posted there were complaints about the current season and what was wrong with it... Ffs stop watching it, this is a FAN comm and yeah we can moan but it is *all* you do about the show, why am I here??
Fandom huh, it never works out well lol
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I do not get people who watch a show every time it airs and then bitch and bleat on what was wrong with it... In fact it really bugs me.
I think you just narrowed it all down everything I was trying to say in this one sentence.
I understand being angered, offended, hurt etc; for instance I just saw the show this year, as a 40-something lesbian, and can understand why young lesbian viewers especially back in the day were so hurt by Tara's death, as an example. The way the show handled it - and Joss' self-centered reply - was "not of the good".
What I don't get is hating a show but still watching it and then complaining.
I had an ex-stepfather who was an undercover cop, and he watched NYPD Blue back in the day every week - and then bitched and grumbled out loud and at length to everyone in the house about how inaccurate it was, that a cop could never get away with that in real life, blah, blah blah, and my question was, Then why do you watch it? Because there are those of us (me) in this house who are trying to enjoy it!
BTW - I haven't watched any of the new Dr Who, but I saw a bit of the older when friends introduced me in college to it, and Sylvester McCoy was one of my favorite Doctors. It was the first time I know of that an entire season was dedicated to exploring the history and psyche of his companion, Ace (also one of my favorite characters). She was very different for a companion character, more "real" and relatable, less of a stereotyped female, than a lot of earlier companions, and the father-daughter bond between them was genuine and affectionate. We were very disappointed when it was cancelled. (It aired in the US almost in real time.)
Anyway, your reference to the 7th Doctor brings back fond memories.
It occurs to me now that McCoy was the Doctor while BtVS was first running and you can actually find some parallels to Giles and Buffy, although I'm not claiming that Joss & company were watching Dr Who for inspiration. (Then again, Joss & ME seem willing to rip off stories from everywhere and anywhere - Anne Rice, X-Men etc) so I wouldn't put it past him.
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I understand being angered, offended, hurt etc; for instance I just saw the show this year, as a 40-something lesbian, and can understand why young lesbian viewers especially back in the day were so hurt by Tara's death, as an example. The way the show handled it - and Joss' self-centered reply - was "not of the good".
Well I do get being hurt by something that happens to a character, can't imagine what it feels like in those circs but so not the point cos I think I get it.
I had an ex-stepfather who was an undercover cop, and he watched NYPD Blue back in the day every week - and then bitched and grumbled out loud and at length to everyone in the house about how inaccurate it was, that a cop could never get away with that in real life, blah, blah blah, and my question was, Then why do you watch it? Because there are those of us (me) in this house who are trying to enjoy it!
LOL Oh gawd *facepalm* How about this one then... I actually posted in comments to the posts on the comm that were all neg headed about the show why do you watch it then, you post this diatribe every week and keep watching it, he replied, "The first 30 years of the show that were fantastic I should not have to stop watching it just because it has been consistently bad for the last 4 years." ....
... Stop watching it! Shesh. That Dexter comm is the same, never see anything positive posted there *sigh*
Anyway, your reference to the 7th Doctor brings back fond memories.
7 was cool, I loved McCoy and even if he had not been he followed the worst Doctor ever, 6 was unbelievable fail and just do not want, so he was starting from a great head start solely on that, the fact he turned out to be made of win is a consequence heh.
It occurs to me now that McCoy was the Doctor while BtVS was first running and you can actually find some parallels to Giles and Buffy, although I'm not claiming that Joss & company were watching Dr Who for inspiration. (Then again, Joss & ME seem willing to rip off stories from everywhere and anywhere - Anne Rice, X-Men etc) so I wouldn't put it past him.
Oh that might have been when it ran in America, but McCoy was The Doctor 23 years ago in 1989 when the show got put on hiatus, he reprised his role in about 60 seconds of the 1996 movie, so I think BuSo it is plausible, go Joss, he couldnt have picked a better show to nick ideas from ;) hehe
Say, you should totally try Who out now you know... It got *so* good :)
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WTF??????????????
I admit I watched Weeds waaayyy past the time I was no longer enjoying it, I suppose out of habit (but then again there was another person watching it with me; had I been by myself I would have stopped.) And I've occasionally (not often) read novels or fanfic with a sinking feeling about where things are going when I should just put it down. But I don't believe that the author/creator/show etc OWES ME anything.
That line of thinking you quote makes no sense to me except as a rationale and an excuse to cover the awkward fact that the person's enjoyment comes directly from how much they hate the show now. (I railed about the Buffy comics quite a bit last year after finding them the first time, and I have to admit that I probably enjoyed the ranting - with like-minded ranters. So, it gave me one way to interact with, and to enter into, BtVS fandom that was more immediate and more visceral than just reading fics and meta. I got to blow off steam, express genuine distaste and horror, and found a way I could walk in the door of fandom. I've since moved on from that (the comics aren't worth the trouble, but they are troubling in their real-world implications IMO), because I can't sustain that for any length of time.
But I suppose some people can, and any strong emotion - including and especially fannish squeefulness and/or rage - is more easily sustained when others share the same feelings. It keeps the fires burning, it feeds on itself, and creates a sense of community or fitting in. And perhaps it also serves as a safe outlet for emotions that can't be expressed elsewhere, towards one's boss, spouse, neighbors, the world (Think of the presidential elections here in the US - or I suspect nearly any country - where suddenly EVERYONE is interested in politics, where people gets swept up in waves of enthusiasm. It's the same thing.)
So I can make that response make sense on an intellectual level, but maintaining that? It must be exhausting at some point.
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Oh yeah absolutely acceptable if people wanna get together and complain about stuff, with a specific comm that I am thinking of it is slightly different, see the old fans of Who [of which I am one] like to be .... Shall we say, elitist and all knowing about Who, newbie fans are not considered true or real fans at all and get shouted down time and again, or their posts utterly ignored. There is an atmosphere of don't speak up or the more knowledgeable fans will put you in your place...
... I got very, very tired of it after a while cos I am all inclusive and no show could last without the fans [arrived in the last 4 years or have been there 40] so at the end of series 4 something happened and a *lot* if not all of the old Who fans were up in arms about the plot decision. [also a lot of new fans were too] I got so worked up about it cos I understood the plot and thought it made sense, so I posted a poll on that comm, I asked about the plot, gave an example and asked people to vote on if they would have done what The Doctor did or not...
... Now the most vocal and active of that comm had done nothing but post hate and loathing about it and shouted down a few newbies too, so when the result came and I had 18% against what he did but 82% saying they agreed it was [happily] shocking because not one post had been made in favour of it and *lots* against it. This showed me that there is a silent majority on that comm who actually love the show but mostly do not speak up cos of the old Who fans.
Also I once gave an opinion, in comments to another post, mentioning an opinion about some fans... If I Buffy-ise the statement I would have said "I think Buffy never loved Spike, but don't tell the Spuffy fans cos they get quite annoyed at that opinion lol!" ... Within 5 minutes a moderator had commented saying "We'll have less of the negative talk about Spuffy fans" I discovered she had frozen her comment and deleted mine... ??? So really it is the moderators imho that are to blame for that comm and it's a real pity cos it could be all inclusive and a great place for fans to meet, it just isnt.
Anyway I went TOTS off track, sorry lol
I said to the person who made the comment. "Well why not come back to the show when a new showrunner takes over, you clearly hate RTD and his ideas?" Their reply? None, my comment was deleted and me asked to refrain from "agitating" the members... No but rly.
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That actually doesn't surprise me in the least. With the safety of anonymity, the internet is an ideal breeding ground for folks with an axe to grind or VERY STRONG FEELINGS to come together. They can rant and rave as loudly as they'd like, thinking they won't hurt anyone and no one knows who they are anyway. (I realize there are exceptions to that, but it's easy to spout off while typing on a keyboard than when looking someone in the eye.)
But long before the internet, manufacturers' and PR people used to have a rule that every letter they received from a customer (whether angry or satisfied) represented X number of customers who didn't bother to express their feelings.
Of course with the internet, expressing an unpopular opinion carries the risk of being "shouted down" and attacked, unfortunately.
I'm often amused however by how one person's statements are considered "inflammatory" and someone else's are just fine when it comes to internet forums - but for the most part I stay well and truly clear of fan forums at the moment.
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You're so right. I had this with our first batch of kids [we had a family young, then made another in middle age] when the internet was young and new and they would say or do things they would *never* have said or done were the person standing there. I hear from the High School they attended 82% of all problems within the school are caused by something relating to social media outside of school.
People not only feel anonymous but they also feel comfortable and protected, cos they're in their home with a drink and perhaps the telly on in the background, utterly safe as our natures dictates. Warm, safe, home, and therein lies the problem cos for the first time in human history we can reach and read the globe from that "cave" of ours. Unfortunately my saying human bring up a whole new issue, cos in my experience the vast majority of human beings on the planet are annoying berks; thus unfortunately this means that all those Neanderthal looking and [frankly] bloody berks out there [of which outnumbers the rest of us] suddenly they, those people, you know the kind I mean, mouth breathers and sniffers of their index fingers, they have a voice, it's terrifying is what it is and as terrible as it sounds, mixed with contradiction though it be to my every instinct and beliefs, some people just shouldn't have a voice... They really shouldn't.
It can also be extended to the webs at large, the vile things I read on yourtube comments for no reason at all, it makes he gag, very occasionally I argue with someone despite having learned these people are gonna be these kinds of knob headed people if my blood pressure is about to kill me or not, so I shouldn't risk it and click away, don't engage and forget. lol
What irks you most about the webs? Oh and you're a Buffy fan, best season for you and why? You don't have to answer, I blathered on so long I wanted to ask.
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I still hate they killed Ianto, Owen and Tosh. I loved all of them. Hated Gwen. I know, I know...she is a bad ass bitch so you love her. I just can't stand her. LOL! The story belongs to the writers. We have to accept what they give us. Fan fiction is our payback. We can write what we want the characters to have.
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My opinions on the Buffy and Angel shows are not popular in fandom, I get and accept that
Well I dunno, I like Gwen not cos she is bad ass, because she is flawed and real, screws up and makes mistakes [like Amy did kissing Eleven and coming onto him but later realising omgoodness it's Rory I love how stupid of me] she seemed, to me anyway, to be the heart of the team and the moral compass that Jack sometimes needed.
I never got Ianto turning gay for Jack and while I liked their relationship I was not much invested in it. How-the-everish I too did not like RTD's obsession with killing the entire bloody team! I liked Tosh and Owen too. I dont think RTD is cut out for writing serials, he seems much more suited to short dramas with a definitive ending.
I also realise that my opinions on TW are not popular in fandom either lol
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Yes, Charisma got pregnant without telling Joss. He had written the whole season around her being the big bad. It screwed up his story. Can't blame him for being ticked off. It cause problems between them for years. When Charisma came back for the 100th episode, she told them she would only come back if she didn't die. They still had her die and that upset her. Read about that lately. She had wanted to work on Dr Horrible, but Joss went with Felicia instead. She said they have made up since then. Actors have to be careful not to tick off people they would like to work with down the road.
Heck, I don't care who agrees with me or not about fandom. I like what I like and I ignore the rest.
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The American Torchwood imho was way too dark to get a bigger following in Mericaland I think, dunno tho I could be wrong.
When you are the lead female in a TV show like that I think it is a commitment you have to honour and she kinda deserved writing out of it cos I get his irk about it.
Wait, so why did she do the episode if she said she wouldn't if her character died?
Also I absolutely *love* Spike but season 5 was not that great for me, I didn't like they got rid of Lilah, didn't like the whole plot with Lindsey at all, didn't like Gunn turning a full 180, I loved Illyria tho, I dunno it just lost its Angel-ness for me that season. *shrug*
Also... Despite what the actors said in interviews and on the DVD extras I felt the ending they gave us totally cheated me as a fan, I realise Joss didnt have long to cobble together a proper ending to the show but I felt what he came up with was bloody awful, I didn't think it was "a perfect ending" as DB said, I hated it... But that could be connected to the fact that I had only just started downloading episodes of shows and didn't look up spoilers so honestly didn't realise that was the last one, the following week I was looking to gak it but it was not there, so I googled and was *gutted* that that ending was the for real ending.
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Charisma said she was promised she wouldn't die and then they changed it on her. I thought it was well written. It made sense that she came back to get him back on track. It would have been odd for her to come back and they would have had to face the whole Conner issue.
I think they knew there would be comics to follow so the ending made sense to them. James said they were out of money so they just dumped tons of water on them.
The last season was more like a buddy film than Angel being the big hero and all. The Girl In Question might have been the way the next season would have flowed if they hadn't been cancelled. If there had been another season, Amy would have played both Illyria and Fred again. They wanted to either bring Fred back or have Illyria change into her for different plot reasons. One of the writers on Angel said they planned for Buffy to return and take Spike off with her. So they did plan on more, but the network cancelled them.
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Wha-huh?
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And unless it's hearsay (and I read it on the internet so it could well be), they did something similar to Robia La Morte as well, who had become a born-again Christian after she'd been dropped from btvS, and asked not to come back as something "evil" - and they made her The First Evil in Amends.
I wasn't there in either case, and I understand honoring one's contract (I also know that no birth control methods are 100%), but I don't think Joss' only option is to be "pissy". He can be a better man about it, and there are enough stories about him being childish and petty as a boss to make me shudder. He may be great 98% but it's those few other instances when he shows a genuine mean streak, which he then jokes about. Cruelty is not funny.
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As to season 4 of Angel - I always assume that it was a bad dream brought on by some drugged blood. Okay - not really - but, you know, really really. As in horribly bad with no saving graces. Except badass Wesley - cuz I'll take him no matter what else is going on.
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I liked Wes/Lidah. I found them to be an interesting pair. Not to say I didn't like Wes with Fred. Her death and his both were the only ones that brought tears to my eyes on Angel.